Senator John Shagaya is a retired Major General and now Senator representing Plateau South Senatorial District on the platform of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP). He spoke to a group of journalists in Kaduna on why the North is right in demanding for the 2011 Presidency, his recent attack on General Domkat Bali over the latter’s attack on the General Officer Commanding the 3rd Armoured Division, Nigerian Army, Jos, General Saleh Maina, among other issues. Our Correspondent, Sekyen Dadik was there.
What is your view about the zoning debate that is tearing the country apart?
My view is not much different from the one that has been expressed by the leadership of our great party. My position, therefore, cannot be too different from the position of the leaders of PDP. My personal view is that because of the sentiment over the lost of late president Umaru Yar’adua, the North, of course, has the moral right to plead that they be given the opportunity to complete the remaining years. The plea should go to the executive, PDP members in the country and PDP national secretariat to the level that is possible, they should be allowed to produce a candidate that will complete the tenure. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this kind of plea but it should be seen as something that must be done. I think that is what the party is saying and what I am saying is that everything that we have done in the past 50 years is to keep this country together as a result of dialogue, discussions, understanding with one another. As a responsible Nigerian, I must state here that there are other 52 political parties in the country registered by the Independent Electoral Commission (INEC). My party is very mindful of that and I do know that at the end of the day, a resolution will responsibly be found.
There are two factions of the PDP in your state. Which of the factions do you belong to?
Well, I belong to PDP, as you have rightly pointed out. It is also true that the membership of the PDP in Plateau state is broken into two families. One is led by the present governor, Jonah Jang, and the second is the faction where the majority of PDP members belong. Before I answer your question, as it affects PDP as a party in Plateau state, I want to state as a true Nigerian that in every family, especially in polygamous setting, there are always crisis in such a home, but it does not mean that there is absence of unity in the family. The disagreement is on the emergence of Prof. Dakum Shown, as the state Chairman of the party. There were no formal congresses in the 17 local government areas of the state. If there were formal congresses in these local government areas, a true leadership would have emerged but there was nothing like that. This is the beginning of the misunderstanding. INEC has acknowledged that there was no congresses conducted on the Plateau; it was just a mere selection. The attention of the leadership of the party (PDP), under the late president Yar'adua was drawn to this illegality by INEC as at the time it happened. When the governor in his wisdom refused to address the issue of the emergence of Prof. Dakum Shown who ruled the party like a garrison commander, the people were angry. If nothing is done, the PDP, as a party, may likely lose the election in 2011. The best thing is to dissolve the Prof. Dakum Shown-led faction of PDP in the state. The National leadership has put in place a Caretaker Committee to run the affairs of the party and conduct elections within 90 days to pave way for the emergence of a new leadership of the party. The decision of the National Working Committee was met with a strive resistance by the Dakum Shown-led faction, but majority of the members of the party are very happy that the NEC has stuck to its ground and promoted unity through fresh congresses in order to ensure unity in the party. One is happy to state here that in the near future, between now and October, the NEC will be conducting congresses leading to a true democratically elected chairman of PDP in Plateau state. The point to note here is that there are 36 states of the federation and there are 53 registered political parties. So, an ear cannot be bigger than the head and if one chapter challenges the authority of the national body, then something must be wrong with that chapter. Except that the instrument of acceptance of members of such party is thrown out, a member of a party, a chapter of a party, as is contained in the constitution of the party, is supposed to respect the party authority, be loyal to that organ. Worst still, if that chapter refuses to respect the national body, especially when you have the President and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the Federal Republic as the leader of the party, one will begin to wonder if something is not wrong with the Shown-led faction.
While the Jos crisis was going on, there were blames and counter blames. General Bali blamed, the GOC Saleh Maina for not doing enough to stop the crises. You were reported to have blamed Gen. Bali for criticising Maina. Why did you criticise Bali's attack on Maina?
Having served in the Nigerian military for 33 years, and having risen to the rank of a Major General, and commanded the premier division of the Nigerian Army, The First Mechanised Division, I had the privilege of commanding the Joint African Force in Liberia. I thought that it was not morally right to call a Major General an idiot. I thought that was too much and that was the caution I made. In retirement, all the General we have today; they are our junior, either that we brought them up in NDA, or in the Nigerian Instructors in War College. Therefore, if we employ abusive languages on them; it means we are also insulting ourselves. But we could make a general statement of the weaknesses of the minds of individuals, As General Shagaya, if I summoned the GOC or request him to see me or call in his office, it is expected that he will never refuse to receive my call. Better still, that I have access to the Chief of Defence Staff, to all the service chiefs, I do not need to go to the newspapers to say anything that may be seen as disparaging someone. I do not have any authority to challenge General Bali, but as a responsible citizen of Nigeria and a lawmaker today, I have the right and moral courage to caution statements that would do more damage to the peaceful operations of the situation in Plateau state. General Bali or Uncle Bali, as we call him, is my senior not only in the military but also a senior even at home. More so, one must concede to him as the longest serving military Minister of Defence and the first Nigerian to grow and obtained the rank of full General on merit. When he became a full general, he never occupied any political office. General Bali was the first to make that rank without being a Head of State. So, we concede a lot of things to him. Nigerian Armed Forces respect him, serving and retired military officers respect him. If you respect an individual, there are certain comments you do not think should come from him.
As an indigene of Plateau, what would you say is responsible for the incessant crises in Jos?
To my mind, I have been a party to a report and recommendations of the Presidential Committee on the Jos crisis. I will leave that to the Presidency to implement those recommendations. Going into detail remarks will not speak well of me. I must not let out some privileged information contained in the recommendations. I must stress here without fear of contradiction that all that is happening in Jos is leadership failure and the state must re-address, re-examine issues more objectively from the fatherly point of view and accommodate feelings and views of all Nigerians residing in Plateau state. The Plateau media house, especially PRTV and FM, should stop being a megaphone for propagating rumours that are harmful to peaceful co-existence.
You attributed the crisis in Jos to leadership failure, would you say you regret voting Jonah Jang as governor of state?
The question is just like you have 10 children, and one is a bad example of the family. Would you regret you have a child? I will say no, I do not regret voting for Jonah Jang, because leadership itself is a process that brings the blessings of Almighty God. So, as at the time Plateau state overwhelmingly voted for Jang, it was done with the belief that God was going to provide the leadership that the state needed. It was in that spirit that we voted; so I cannot regret, rather I will say that Plateau is learning big lessons about voting personalities into positions of power. Now, before we vote any person into the office of the governor in Plateau, the background, the history, psychology of that individual should be carefully examined. I think that is the lessons that God has put back in our minds.
Very soon, Nigeria will be 50 years as an independent nation. Plans are under way for celebrations. Is this event worth celebrating?
I think we have every reason to celebrate the 50th year as an independent nation. Firstly, if we don't praise ourselves, nobody will praise us. We should also retrace our step to make amends where we have gone wrong. Secondly, the struggle for the attainment of independence started as far back as 1952-1953 by most leaders who are now late. Thirdly, that we were acknowledged by the former colonial master of having come of age to rule ourselves, we must give ourselves the credit. Again, since we became independent, we have developed to an extent that we have been acknowledged as a sub-regional leader, sub-regional power in Africa, one of the African powers, next to South Africa, that our troops the armed forces have enjoyed the confidence of the citizen of the world wherever they have gone for peace keeping mission. That Nigeria was the champion of the anti-apartheid regime in South Africa; No wonder president Nelson Mandela, when he was released from prison, first visited Nigeria. Nigerians, at least, have been able to feed themselves and we should not forget that, once in a while, certain political mistakes are made and food is imported and as at the time such mistakes are made, it never meant that Nigeria could not feed itself. Rice importation ends between Lagos, Ibadan and Kano, it does not get to Langtang because the poor farmer eats from what he cultivates. This means that, to some large extent, we have been able to feed ourselves. However, with more encouragement and the technological development coming in and the encouragement of government, we should feed ourselves. We have so far the largest industries even though they are collapsing now because of the failure of certain strategies within our political arrangements, but our other 16 members of West African sub-region do not have these industries that we have in Nigeria. What one is saying here is that I can go on and on, from 1960 till date, we have survived as a nation, we have been able to dialogue, resolved our problems, we have been able to help our brothers in the West African sub-region, then we have no reason to celebrate? I agree that 50 years of our independence is time for us to celebrate.
Speculations are rife that you are nursing an ambition of becoming the governor of Plateau state come 2011, how true is this?
I am not too sure about the rumour. Perhaps, I am just hearing it from you. But there are insinuations by those in the circle of government, out of fear of popularity of the shining stars of certain individuals, not only me, that they will be into the race for governorship in 2011. I want to state categorically here that if I vie for the position of governor of Plateau state, and if it is the will of God I will be given, since the position of the governor is not an inheritance of a particular family but decided by the majority of the people of the state. Having said that, I want to categorically state here that if I have a dream at all I would want to return to the Senate; from here I can share my experience from the red chamber with whoever becomes the governor of Plateau state. I will remain in the Senate where I hope to make a difference. Also, being here in the Senate I will be in a position to offer advice to all those that matter in my state. To serve the state as their representative here in Abuja, I will be contented. I am not looking for the seat of the governor. But leadership could be imposed and it is situation that determines.
Do you think that the present National Assembly has what it takes to ensure the creation of new states?
The answer is yes, because the constitution allows for the National Assembly to pass laws for the creation of new states and local government areas. But like anything in law, the National Assembly will not give states where there is no demand for such. That is why today you find agitation for states creation all over the country.
Do you see these demands for new states as genuine and necessary?
The National Assembly is authorised by the constitution to determine the suitability for the creation of state and you may want to know if the state that are being agitated for now are viable, both economically, manpower and land mass. I will say that there will be special committee that will sit down to look at the demands. They will look at the criteria that have been set out for the creation of states by the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria and where desirable, yes. Right now, the committee is not yet in place because more demands are coming in.
The 2011 elections are around the corner, what should Nigerians do for credible polls next year?
My advice to all Nigerians is to give President Goodluck Jonathan a chance, the chairman of INEC a chance and to cooperate with all agencies that are charged with the responsibility of conducting the 2011 elections so that the election will be hitch-free. Nigeria needs good leadership, a leadership that is a reflection of the representatives of the voice of Nigerians. I will also ask Nigerians, who are in position of leadership, especially those in the executive authority, communities or constituencies, not to undermine the conduct of the elections.
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