Last week we ran the first part of this wide ranging interview Abdulazeez Abdullahi and Tawey Zakka conducted with Senator Jibril Aminu in which he spoke about the crisis in PDP in Adamawa, the frosty relations between him and the state governor, Alhaji Murtala Nyako, the hitches in the return of former Vice-President Atiku Abubakar to the PDP and his presidential ambition. This weekend we bring to you the concluding part of this scintillating discussion. Have some fun.
Why are you making such a strong case for Atiku, the man you once fought?
I’m doing it in the interest of Adamawa. This state has an interest in ensuring that these people are brought back, that they stay together and work together. By doing this we are trying to restore the situation we had before. I don’t see how this is going to harm the governor or the party. In any case, we are going to ensure that it doesn’t harm him. There are some political acts that people are cashing in on. For instance, people like Senator Abubakar Girei find a way to reach the government to curry some favours or escape from criminal activities, collecting money from government here and there. These kinds of people don’t want peace. They go round to get somebody to write articles which they sign abusing everybody. The Bible says “blessed are the peacemakers” but Adamawa state says “condemned are the peacemakers”. It’s a problem that we have. And then there are complications now such as what is happening in the state House of Assembly. Now it appears the people who have taken over the House are more sympathetic to Atiku.
And to you too.
Fine. Anybody sympathetic to me should be sympathetic to me as a father who wants to bring the party back. Then there is the problem of this president (Goodluck Jonathan), whether we should support him or not. It’s going to complicate issues even more in Adamawa. Now we’re not able to take a common position on this. There are people who support Jonathan and those who say zoning must continue. All these things are dividing us. Now we are not in a position to unite in Adamawa and take a common position like we did in 2005 to 2007. This puts the party in danger because we’re not the only party in Adamawa. There are other parties—ANPP, which at a time was quite a threat; AC; and CPC. These are all parties of the people and Adamawa people are free to join or vote for them. Now you can see my position. I’m not interested in government or any favour, appointment or contract. I’m not interested in such things. Nobody will tell you that I had ever expressed interest in any of these things in any government. Never.
What is your assessment of the Nyako government?
No, I won’t comment on that, you know it.
What was the undertaking Atiku was asked to give as a precondition for his return to Adamawa PDP?
You don’t relay even to Peoples Daily all the discussions you have with people.
From the way you have been speaking about Atiku it appears you support fully his candidacy in the next presidential election.
No. It looks to you that way but I’m glad you have raised it so that I can remove some doubt about my stand. You know, of all the candidates, the one that is dearest to me is former President Ibrahim Babangida. I was his minister for seven years. But I support Atiku’s right to contest and I understand that there is no way of preventing Jonathan from also contesting. What I’ll say about Atiku is that he comes from my Adamawa. I don’t it to go down that even if he wasn’t going to win I was one of the people responsible for stopping him trying. It isn’t nice. Anybody from Adamawa contesting, if I’m not going to help them I should not block them.
Senator Abubakar Girei said you promised him a ministerial appointment but never gave him in the end. What is the truth?
It can’t be true. If he said so he was telling a knowing lie. There was nothing like that. How could I have promised him a ministerial appointment when I know the person with the power, the right and the privilege of nominating ministers? It’s the governor who does that. They ask you to give the names of five people who you think should occupy positions in the government. That’s the way they put it. From the list they can make you a minister or the head of an extra-ministerial department or any other political appointment. Of the five names sent, one has been made a minister, another an ambassador, etc. There is no way anybody can say I promised them ministerial jobs. I know some of them were following us and expressing interests. Expressing an interest isn’t the same as you being made a promise. All I remember about Abubakar was that he came to my house on few occasions to tell me that he was once a senator and I was occupying his Senate seat so I should help him to become governor of Adamawa. Even on the day that I received news of their disqualification he was in my house and he was still saying that he wanted me to support him to become the governor.I felt that i could make anybody a governor just like that. That was where we talked and we stopped. Each I would reply that the people of Adamawa would make you a governor because they were the ones that would vote for you.
The accusation some people have been making against you is that you made it easy for Boni to return to the Adamawa PDP but not Atiku...
No, you’re not getting me right. I want both Boni and Atiku back in PDP. But we had a problem with Atiku not Boni who was just a governor with whom we disagreed and fought. But we had a lot of complaints against Atiku because of the kinds of things he was saying about the PDP when he left; he formed a party and brought litigation against PDP. We had a dossier against him. But that is gone now. He went away, formed a party and was defeated. Now he wants to come back. After following due process and showing respect to the people of his ward, local government and state I think he has no problem. He looks to me to have changed. He is a different person now. He has got a lot of education from 2005 to 2010, that is, five years.
Don’t you think the North’s fixation about Jonathan running or not running in 2011 is allowing it to groom the right presidential materials?
That to me is the responsibility of the governors. They should do this. Governors in this country have been very active at the federal. You expect them to work in their states but they are very active at the federal level as well. They have the governors’ forum, they have a secretariat. They don’t have a free hand now as they had in the Obasanjo days because he was using them a lot. But they still wield considerable power; they sit on the national economic council, security council and things like that. And in every state the governor is in charge of the party whether is PDP, AC or ANPP. The governor is regarded as the leader of the party. The PDP, of all the parties, has a very poor funding arrangement. It depends on the governor and that gives him power to be the piper that dictates the tune. The governors are listened to when they speak. They should be bringing people, bringing up names. Unfortunately the names you get to hear are names of the same governors. So we’ve not matured. One of them is a governor in Kano. Apart from Atiku and Babangida I’m sure the next name will be that of some governor. This is the problem. It’s time we began to think of the people instead of ourselves. If we don’t do that we’ll continue to grumble like this.
At a point people, including staunch stalwarts of PDP, feared the party would implode because of the emergence of the Reform Forum faction. Somehow it weathered that storm. Now the challenge is that of instilling internal democracy.
I’ve said it a lot of times. Much earlier when I very active secretariat work in the PDP I worked out what I thought were the three challenges ahead of PDP or any party for that matter. The first is to have a democratic instinct. You must demonstrate that you believe in democracy in your actions and so on. Democracy also means justice, equality and fair play every time. If you don’t have them then you are not democratic. Are we democratic? That’s number one. Number two, you must be able to manage victory. People think that all need is to win and all else will follow. But isn’t true. Sometimes victory is more difficult to manage than defeat. If you’re defeated you can always try again. If you win you don’t just say I must win again and again. You must do something to justify your winning because you’re given a responsibility, authority and public funds. Have we been able to manage victory? In my opinion, no. Number three, you must make a difference. You must make a difference economically, politically and socially. You must show at the end of the day that you have made a difference. Have we made a difference? In my view, no. This is a problem for the PDP. Now you talked about Reform Forum. It arose as a result of the party’s inability to achieve those three goals. You also said the group has been contained. Do you know why? They thought the party would fight them. Instead they were only suspended. But then the party turned round to swallow the reforms the group wanted. That was what happened. So obviously, if they have accepted the reform proposals then there will be no fear of an implosion. Now is the PDP going to face a similar situation? I doubt it. But what the party faces really is a very tough election in 2011, more so if it is true that we are going to conduct free and fair elections; there will be no rigging, no abuse of position and no harassment. It that is what will happen then we have a tough time ahead of us. I hope that we rise up and be true to our word to run free and fair elections. That means we have to work very hard because you can’t use any incumbency factor to win. That I think is the challenge before the PDP.
The same Abubakar has accused you of making trouble for Nyako because you have been unable to have your way with him. What do you have to say?
Well, I’ve told you. He knows our relationship. He knows also what has gone on between us in terms of allocation of resources. Nobody can say that I have benefitted or tried to benefit from this administration since after the election. I’m not interested in contracts or financial gain for that matter. I’ve not recommended anybody for an appointment. Anybody that I sent to them was in the interest of the government. And all the things that we discussed before the government came to power had to do with federal appointments. It was not an Adamawa state matter but an Adamawa PDP matter. And the people that have been appointed were selected by the President at that time. In fact, when they selected the minister from the state I was out of the country. I’m very glad and proud that she is there. I know that people like Abubakar would like to be ministers. Unfortunately Adamawa’s slot has been given to a deserving woman from another party. He isn’t someone I would like to talk about. If anybody is saying that I’m making trouble because I never had my desires he isn’t telling the truth. I remember when somebody told me that the former governor said of all the big men in Adamawa, the only person who looked for anything from me was Jibril Aminu. I don’t have everything but what I have, alhamdulillah, is enough for me.
Concluded
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